Open debate on cheating exams... is it fair?

[SemiconductorCat]

These are the cheat sheets that I'm using for Mathematics IA course.
http://tutorial.math.lamar.edu/cheat_table.aspx


we got a mathematics-IB course too. math book is soo sad !

anyway this is called real cheating ,
https://robot.lk/viewtopic.php?f=100&t= ... ting#p8251
Good luck with EXAM CHEATING !

[Neo]

anyway this is called real cheating ,
viewtopic.php?f=100&t=2743&p=8251&hilit=cheating#p8251
Good luck with EXAM CHEATING !

Sanduna bro, I have already asked you very politely not to submit/promote such things in ROBOT.LK. This forum is only for quality discussions. We don't accept whatever made out of technology as good. So please understand.

University level mathematics (especially the ones that come under Special degree in Mathematics) is far too difficult than what we had for A/Ls. I did Pure/Applied for my first two years and some subjects on my Special degree in Computer Science. The more it is difficult, the more fun we take out it. The beauty of mathematics is that. Also, the more you concentrate, the more you realise & understand. Cheat sheets are good for memorising the theorems, etc...

Warning: If you were caught for cheating exams in BIT-UCSC, you will have to undergo so much of punishments including cancelling your government education for lifetime. I haven't met anybody (Though I did an internal degree I know lots of good people who did BIT and other external degrees) who passed with good results such as 'A' passes/1st Classes, etc...
By cheating you might pass the exam. But to get good results, you will have to be really ready.

[SemiconductorCat]

I think I don't need to apologize here.Because I'm not you and I know the pain of this.
believe me society is curval and ppl are animals , nothing is fair in this universe.
I know that from my experience.Another offtopic, Let's back to the topic.

Oky , When the first time I did the mathematics II for computing in BIT , I only received a "E" pass.
Believe me when I'm telling , I have gone after lots of teachers and ppl who told how are genius
in math. But how they explain the concepts are more harder , they explicitly make things difficult.
The true meaning of a "consultant" who makes your life more harder.However , then I went to the
internet and found these videos. And finally this PatrikJMT guy is the one who helped me,
He have very simple explanations to everything.
http://www.youtube.com/user/patrickJMT
no big talks or making things difficult to show up his knowledge, but He is a Mathematics PHD guy.
Finally thanks to him I got "B" pass when I did my repeat exams in year 2.And about BIT -Mathematics
II I know the syllabus and I will help anybody who need help without big talks.I know how I hard
get even that pass.

I haven't met anybody (Though I did an internal degree I know lots of good people who did BIT and other external degrees) who passed with good results such as 'A' passes/1st Classes, etc...

of course what you telling is true, Any difficult thing you can with with concentration, patience and courage.
But if you become a Electronic Engineer [modeling and simulation] you will met application of what you learn from course unit differential equations everywhere in your job. But suppose you just be a programmer for your lifetime
and to support your mother's income then you won't probably met any place where you need to solve a long
differential equation.But one thing is true , the ppl who did more harder mathematics , very hardly make a
mistake in computer programming , and they are default good code readers. But without mathematics we can
get that same skills with experience. Bill Gates told that "The Genius guy in my class is working under me
for money in my company !" , so math is not everything.

It's not to discourage any math learner. But what I telling is , explain what you need to explain in the simplest
way as the possible. If you don't believe me sat a leacture of differential equations in local campus and
sat go through MIT this video, you'll see the different , TRUE GENIUS ,never show things complicated or make
things explicitly harder.
http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/mathematics/ ... ring-2010/


and about exam cheating is not a criminal thing. Eyes open neo there are lots of unfair things in this universe
and among the ppl. This topic title is "Cheating" so I think I don't need to apologize. Oky if you asking why
you behave unreasonably and want to question me? then why don't you go and talk about unfair things like,
"eating other animal's flesh" , "abortion" , "rapes and child abuses" , "killing unbelievers in name of the religion ?"
Sorry neo , this is completely off topic, but you are the one who goes off topic, and this is my answer.
Either in my cheating thread, I just wanted to share the technology behind cheating that used by those
Chinese students.[Chineese government is killing thousands of fallan gung practitioners and lively harvesting
their body parts :like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bB5O9Lk99HI ] where is your voice. Oky you don't
have answers then go ahead and ban me !

[Herath]

Sandun,
I agree with that the society is not a good place. Its not only about the human society, the whole universe is a violent place since it's birth. Natural selection and evolution has worked for ages and have selected us humans as the dominators of this planet. The nature has selected only the best who fit for the survival. We have to face that fact somehow.

Cheating at exams takes you no where. You could pass an exam, but ultimately it will cost someone as failures in the career and mostly the whole life.
I have seen lot of people cheating at university exams. It kinda hurts to see them get degrees and doing jobs. I have never cheated at any exam. And I never will. If I can't pass an exam, then I will not worry. Or I will just work much harder. If everyone cheats and go in to responsible places of this country, the current situation of the country will get even worse. We need real talent if we are to see this country a developed country.

No one should not rationalize their mistakes just because others make them. If that happened, this society will face lots of chaos. The society is made of single person. If that each and every single person try not be evil, imagine how this society would be. So i can not agree with your statements about abortions, killings, etc.

I am also a university student doing a Applied science degree. But I could not pass out yet. It because I was not interested in it and now I understand my mistakes. And I blame no one but my self. I am not blaming the lecturers because the course stuff was hard. It's just I did not work enough for it. And, still I do not even think about cheating at the exam. I do not want that degree if i do not have the knowledge to be awarded the degree. I will work hard at my strength and obtain the degree.
Different people have different thoughts. But you should not hate the society for what it is. It will only make you more stressing and hating towards the society. I understand that the life is hard at this stage of life. But hating, cheating and this like that will take you no where. Just try your best, and you will be able to truly happy without feeling guilty about anything.
And Neo will not ban you. . He is not that kind of a person. But It is not always good to challenge the knowledge of the seniors if you are not quite sure about the thing you are talking about. You are welcome to the forum to share your knowledge in the fields that you have the strength. But just revise your post few times before hitting the submit button because this is a forum dedicated to technology. We should just focus on that and try to make this country (or at least our lives) better.

[SemiconductorCat]

@Herath,
where I say something to encourage somebody to cheat?
But let me ask from you, what's the big difference between a real-hard worked earned "A" and a
cheated "C" pass in the university , if he/she does not use math/modeling in his job ?

You could pass an exam, but ultimately it will cost someone as failures in the career and mostly the whole life.

Not extract, read my above post, what differential equations course will help you in your job as a web
programmer? But Electronic Engineering person will met it in his simulations and modeling.In universities
there is something called "craming" and everyone is doing that right? As you said you are a physical
science student and you know this very well. My university friend told me that 90% of the university
students are studying within 2 weeks for the exam ! I may wrong, but many are, if so you claming about
real skills? Suppose you studying for compiler theory, then you need to understand the concepts,
go through other books, do the particles , complete a project [both individual and group] and do
assignments. so if every university student who is doing all these things within 2 weeks are really genius
if they can. But that's not the way that they pass exams , they collect past papers , explore their
patterns and addicting to it. anyway thanks to the lazy work of exam paper author , you'll won't
find too something you need to think new or think critically. So is that what you claim from
others ?

Anyway there are 10% of uni students who are really really smart, they continuously work driven by
their interest and they play when the exam is near. They are the ppl like "NEO" , who can
actually teach to the cramers thanks to Kuppi cramer method and Kuppi ppl in unis others also
passing. But let me ask one question , what's the so deal and so difference between a "cramer"
and a "cheater". I don't encourage on cheating , but if you can cheat to a subject that you'll
sure that you will not need it in your job, then it's oky.

It kinda hurts to see them get degrees and doing jobs. I have never cheated at any exam.

why everything happened to only me isn't it? Anyway cat had jumped from the bag !it's called the
jelous , and everybody have it. But even if you know somebody who passed cheated , sill respect him
because he is not the worst guy in this universe just because of exam cheating.
and "Job" is so a way of life. and everybody should have a "way of income and life" , ppl who doing
jobs are depend on it. How old are you and which school you went ?it's not nice to criticize someone
who is doing a job to live. But that doesn't say if you work harder and develop your skills is bad.
If you interested in math then as I already told what you need is concentration,patience and courage
and time. Probably you need to sacrifice your years of repeats while others are doing jobs, True
the true path to become real genius is very rough, but you selected that path by your will, other ppl
who doing jobs have nothing to do with it.

But It is not always good to challenge the knowledge of the seniors if you are not quite sure about the thing you are talking about.

It's oky to challenge Neo guy if I have that knowledge , but the problem is he is 20+ years experienced and
I didn't even survived 2 months in my job.Somebody in his level of experience can give him a challenge,but
that's not me clearly. IzTine Challenged Newton , Hawkings Challenged IzTine ,challenge in knowledge is
not evil if you have it. I don't have it so I can simply silient and listen. You may talk about some previous
posts that I have posted with wrong facts, As you can see I already apologized !

But here what you pointing is not a knowledge challenge ! It's your weakness and it's way of life,
as you told already ,"I hate ppl who cheated and doing jobs while I'm still studying on campus",
that's the extract point what I'm talking about, even he cheated and passed exam, he is not asking
money from you to maintain his wife/family ? Did he asked? And you on the other hand studying in a
government university and funded by their hardly earned tax money. you probably should be thankful for them
aren't you. However I don't say it's wrong to use free education or use universities which are funded
by tax money. But let them live too. don't destroy their way of life.And exam cheating is nothing
criminal , but I clearly discouraged it,BUT WE DON"T HAVE ANY RIGHT TO CRITICIZE OR SCOLD
PPL LIKE THAT. You live your life with nth order differential equations and let him live his/her life.

[Herath]

Jeez, you are full of rubbish. Sorry for saying that. Can you remember the following dialog from the movie Avatar?.

Moat: It is hard to fill a cup that is already full.
Jake Sully: My cup is empty. Trust me. Just ask Dr. Augustine. I'm no scientist.

Your cup is full of rubbish ideas. So you will not accept new ideas. I do not have any respect for the people at the university. 95% percents of them are just sick bastards. I ain't jealous about other people doing jobs. I do not have a problem with money to be so jealous. And my monthly allowance is greater than most of those people's salaries which work as management trainees. And all I am asked to do is learn well. That's what I am doing now.

I was not interested in the degree because I did not have any genuine interest in learning those complicated things. But now I do, so I am learning now.

You are always talking about very advanced stuff and sounds like most of them are just out of the research lab. You can keep your thinking, it is not a problem. But the thing is that, we will never be successful as a nation if we adopt your ideas. Its not all about having a job, earning your meal and maintaining a family. Even the man from the stone age could do that. This is about going a step further.

And the thinking of these kind of people only takes the whole country, the nation 10 steps backward each time.

And the last thing. Nothing is forced on you,it was you who chose to take the path of science. And what is your problem with those differential equations?. They are even used in commerce and economics subjects. Not only complex modelling.

If you are willing to accept, there are lots of people around here who likes to help. Keep that in mind.

[Neo]

Ohh...lots of things have happened here without me on the scene

Okay let me intervene as well, I'm the super power here I might type things like "nuclear fusion chain reactor" by mistake since I'm watching Iron Man in a side. Herath, remember we talked about that reactor before?
I looked at it few times and still like to be one Tony Stark in Stark Industries (Yet the inventor role...not the role of iron man).

Okay... Let's get on with the subject. Since there are lots of posts before me, I'll address points of my interest in order without prioritising based on importance. Please note that this whole effort is to express the reality in software industry since almost all guys here are in to that. We have electronics engineers, mechanical engineers, etc... here but all are in to software in reality. This is not good for our country but in reality this is it. This is going to be a huge post I'm sure. May be the biggest ever in a forum?

Okay. Sandun bro... Though I call you bro, people who are 16 calls me uncle now
From the very beginning of your presence in ROBOT.LK, I understood that with some assistance you could be turned in to a good Support Team member. It is very hard for me to find talented people on the Support Team since our people are not much used to help others through forums or they are too busy. Some people think that keeping tips and tricks hidden with them will help them to dominate their position.

However my view is different. I think it is called selfishness. Nothing else. I need to teach people as much as possible (though I'm also very busy with my day to day work). This life is too short. If we don't help others as much as possible we have no assets (good deeds) to take to next life and beyond.

Okay, to start with, Herath is my best Support Team member. His logical arguments had already proved his excellent ability to understand problems. He helped lots of members to come up with their technical problems. He is a very kind hearted person who helped some members by even going out of the way. That's the Sharing type spirit I would like to see here. There are times that I learned things from him too though he is about 10 years younger than me. That's how this technology world works. If you are ready to listen & learn, you have a chance to survive. If you start to think you are a genius, it marks your end.

I think I don't need to apologize here.Because I'm not you and I know the pain of this

No. There is nothing to apologise. As I explained before, my intention is to encourage people to learn things properly. You know that some students are trying to find short cuts to pass the exams. But in my opinion, learning things properly is the only way to get rid of this pain. If you keep on finding alternatives without concentrating on learning things, you will end up with suffering. According to Lord Buddha, our greediness always avoid us from seeing the true path to wisdom. If you cheat, you might pass the exam, but you will one day face a problem for lacking knowledge.

believe me society is curval and ppl are animals, nothing is fair in this universe.

Since you take quotes from Bill Gates I would like to take one of my favourite quotes of him. (I also respect him a lot. It doesn't mean I like Windows . But he is an extraordinary computer scientist who invented quite a lot of technologies we use today.. However if I order my favourite scientists, non other than Albert Einstein comes first... (even before Hawking though I like him a lot too).

If you’re born poor, it’s not your mistake. But if you die poor, it’s your mistake
Bill Gates

So in my opinion, world is obviously not fair. But if you work harder on the right path, you can always win.

Uttanavatho sathimatho - suchikammassa nisammakarino
Sagngnatassa cha dhammajeevino - appamattassa yasobhivaddathi
It means, “Mindful and striving, pure, restrained and righteous man advances to fame and prosperity.”

When the first time I did the mathematics II for computing in BIT , I only received a "E" pass.

My personal feeling is, you might have completely forgotten the mathematics paper and concentrating on computer subjects. Anyway, if you knew ROBOT.LK at that time, probably we would have helped you.

Believe me when I'm telling , I have gone after lots of teachers and ppl who told how are genius in math. But how they explain the concepts are more harder , they explicitly make things difficult. The true meaning of a "consultant" who makes your life more harder.

I can udnerstand you. As I started my post with that, some people are like that. They always try to show a big picture. They think teaching in a difficult way is the best way to gain a good name. However in my life, I met lots of good teachers as well as a few in that worst category. However, I'm not angry with them. I think they had also taught me the lesson of life being not always fair

ppl who told how are genius in math...

Have you ever asked what degree they have and what passes they had for mathematics subjects. Few years back, I met one of batch mates who is a tuition master (teaching A/L Maths). He is very popular these days so I won't tell his name. I know his mathematics knowledge since he failed several subjects and couldn't pass exams with several attempts. All the genius mathematicians I know (who did special degree in mathematics, UoC) are living in USA, UK and Australia with PhDs. They won't come to SL unfortunately since mathematicians, physicists are not recognised here since no scientific research is happening in SL at the moment. They can join the local universities for a very low salary. In those countries they earn a very high salary (~US$10,000 per month). Dr. Sarath Gunapala who fixed the vision system in the Pathfinder Space Probe in NASA is a good example. This is no wonder at a time where all engineers jump in to software industry at the end of their degree. This is not good for the country but software jobs are the only highly paid jobs in the country at the moment.

However, then I went to the internet and found these videos. And finally this PatrikJMT guy is the one who helped me, He have very simple explanations to everything.
http://www.youtube.com/user/patrickJMT
no big talks or making things difficult to show up his knowledge, but He is a Mathematics PHD guy. Finally thanks to him I got "B" pass when I did my repeat exams in year 2.

Some guys I met abroad are mostly like that.. very helpful... well explaining, etc... But this is not always true. There are many bad guys as ours too. Luckily you met a good teacher.

And about BIT -Mathematics II I know the syllabus and I will help anybody who need help without big talks.I know how I hard get even that pass.

We have some members who are doing BIT. It is good if you could help them. A month or two back, Nipuna (who is one of our senior members) asked lots of questions in Mathematics and it was only me and Herath who helped him on that. Please do whatever possible but only thing I'm concerned is that you give a correct answer no matter it's big or small

But if you become a Electronic Engineer [modeling and simulation] you will met application of what you learn from course unit differential equations everywhere in your job.

Though I passed A/L on my first attempt with enough marks to go to E1-UoM, I didn't want to. Because at that time I was already exposed to computers and knew the only field that can survive locally is software. Though my dad is an electronics engineer and encouraged me to do engineering, I always wanted to do what I like. That's what I'm doing now as well Okay, regarding differential equations (a part of calculus), it is clearly an Applied Mathematics subject (though it is taught under Pure in school). All applied stuff are derived from Pure Maths for the ease of use (If you know martial arts, Kung fu is Pure, Jeet Kune Do is Applied ).

The original Pure subject which calculus had been derived from is called Real Analysis. In brief, it's all about limits. What is essential for engineers is obviously the Applied part of mathematics. Since they do not want to waste time on solving lots of mathematical equations. Pure is for scientists and physicists. When things are invented by mathematicians and physicist, it is engineer's job to implement it in the fastest possible way.

I like Pure more than Applied In my characteristics, you might have noticed that I like to study things in detail in to the deepest level. I practice Buddhism everywhere in my life. So I don't accept anything until I realise it as truth.

However I did some robotics later on (which is a mixture of electronics/programming and mechanical), so I got to know that so much of differential equations and integrals are used more often.

But honestly I do not know the involvement of differential equations in electronics (Since I'm an embedded engineer I touch electronics as part of my job). I know modelling and simulation that come under drawings of mechanical engineering involve so much of 3 dimensional mathematics and calculus.

But suppose you just be a programmer for your lifetime and to support your mother's income then you won't probably met any place where you need to solve a long differential equation.

This is not always true. For example, if you are a hobbyist in robotics (such as me) you can use your knowledge. Mathematics is the way we grasp real world things in to a paper. So it is used everywhere when you step in to the world of science & technology.

But one thing is true , the ppl who did more harder mathematics , very hardly make a mistake in computer programming , and they are default good code readers.

This is again not always true. I know excellent people in mathematics who couldn't write good programmes in the university . I have seen the other way round as well. Good programming skills but unable to understand the problem clearly and design it due to incapability of deriving real world problems mathematically. Non of those groups will be able to join a good software company unfortunately. They will mostly fail in the interview. Even if they join, they will get exposed quite soon and fired in lighting speed. People who can survive with a designation such as 'Software Engineer' are people with good knowledge in software/designing/mathematics (at least computer related mathematics).

But without mathematics we can get that same skills with experience. Bill Gates told that "The Genius guy in my class is working under mefor money in my company !" , so math is not everything.

You might not know that all these computer language syntaxes and semantics we use today are derived from a mathematics subject called Formal Methods. Scientists use Formal Methods to explain the behaviour of a scientific process. For example, when we plan to send a rocket to space, the behaviour need to be explained step by step. This is also taught to both students of Computer and Maths special degrees. 'for', 'while', 'goto' like syntaxes are used to explain the scientific process.

So whenever you say computers, it is mathematics actually you use in an applied way. Remember what I have said before on Kung Fu and Jeet Kune Do. Mathematics and Physics is Kung Fu (foundation), all other are Jeet Kune Do (applied derivatives made to speed up work).

It is true that you don't need to know much advance things in mathematics. Obviously you can learn Jeet Kune Do straight away. But always remember Kung Fu had given birth to it . No Kung Fu -> No Jeet Kune Do.

Mostly you don't need advance mathematics to design computer programmes. But there are situation where there is no way out without them. For example, Herath was experimenting GPS with, microcontrollers quite recently. I'm sure he had to use his knowledge in mathematics including calculus. If you are writing code to move a DC motor quite precisely, you will have to use a PID logic which involves calculus. And one thing you need to know, embedded programming is a sub field of software engineering. It has close connections to electronics but still firmware is software.

It's not to discourage any math learner. But what I telling is , explain what you need to explain in the simplest way as the possible. If you don't believe me sat a leacture of differential equations in local campus and sat go through MIT this video, you'll see the different , TRUE GENIUS ,never show things complicated or make things explicitly harder.

I think I have already commented on this before. Yes, it is really required to explain as simpler as possible. Making it difficult will never help both. We name them as such untalented lecturers. Nothing else.

However there is another thing which we need to consider. When learning it is really required to learn step by step. If you try to jump in to middle, it's a disaster. You will find it very difficult. When I was doing A/Ls, I hardly missed classes since if I miss one, on the next day it found it harder for me to learn the next thing which is mostly associated with the previous lesson.

and about exam cheating is not a criminal thing. Eyes open neo there are lots of unfair things in this universe and among the ppl.

One of my mechanics (don't ask me who and where) who went to a reputed school in Colombo had seated for the mathematics paper on behalf of his best friend who failed on the first shy. He got caught and all examinations under government had banned for lifetime. The reason I got close to him (and ultimately became a good friend of mine) unintentionally was because he is a real talented guy. You might be shocked to hear he passed O/L with 8Ds on his first shy He went abroad and now working as a chief mechanic for a well reputed car company. I know he deserve the place. But see how dangerous these things are. So why don't we simply try our best. Just tell your parents that you can't be better more than that. (My understanding is parents are really responsible for pushing their children become this and that.. This never happens in developed world).

This topic title is "Cheating" so I think I don't need to apologize. Oky if you asking why you behave unreasonably and want to question me? then why don't you go and talk about unfair things like, "eating other animal's flesh" , "abortion" , "rapes and child abuses" , "killing unbelievers in name of the religion ?"

I also do not agree with those animal like stuff. Human is an animal by figure. But not by brain.
Anyway what I feel on you is, you are just another stubborn kid who was raised with a luxury life, who never yet felt the pressure life, etc.... It is because you are still young to realise some of the things in life. My daughter teaches me quite a lot of things these days that I never ever felt even exist. So there are things that non other than time teaches you. We can't just imagine what will happen next.

Sorry neo , this is completely off topic, but you are the one who goes off topic, and this is my answer.

It's okay. We will have to understand each other. The whole meaning of human life is about understanding each other and respect views, tolerate beliefs, etc...

Either in my cheating thread, I just wanted to share the technology behind cheating that used by those Chinese students.

I fully understand that. That's why I didn't delete it. But as the admin of the forum I must tell the readers, "Do not practice this AT SCHOOL'

Chineese government is killing thousands of fallan gung practitioners and lively harvesting their body parts. where is your voice.

Don't forget that there is a silent fight between West and East. When the opponent become too difficult to handle with weapons propaganda campaigns come in to existence. It's more a political thing. I'm only assisting people with technology issues here anyway

Oky you don't have answers then go ahead and ban me !

I don't see any reason to do so. You think I'm such a fool to ban a person without a point? I don't see any point. If you do not agree with one of my point, I argue scientifically. That's what I like to see in ROBOT.LK other than getting stuck with technical terms to show up a self or figure.

--------------------------------------------------------------
Herath's Post

While I agree with all points, I would comment on one point.

He is not that kind of a person. But It is not always good to challenge the knowledge of the seniors if you are not quite sure about the thing you are talking about.

People who know me will respect me. Respect is not something that we can get by pushing someone to do so. In good old days, there were people who pay '25 cents' to be called as 'sir'
According to Buddhism, what you give is what you get. So if you expect others to respect you, then you need to respect others.

But let me ask from you, what's the big difference between a real-hard worked earned "A" and a cheated "C" pass in the university , if he/she does not use math/modeling in his job ?

Ohh.. This is too bad. You told me your dad is an engineer? Ask him what's the difference. You might pass the interview and enter to a job. But you will get fired quite soon when your true self is exposed. If I tell you the number of people I have fired within their first six months in my life for being incapable, untalented, etc... you might even stop talking to me again But managers have to take decisions for the majority interest.

You could pass an exam, but ultimately it will cost someone as failures in the career and mostly the whole life.

Truly said Herath. Untalented people are a real challenge to the field now. What happens mostly is parents push their children to go to software industry since it is good money. So lots of untalented guys jump in and destroy the whole image of the country. However companies are too much concerned about getting only the talented guys nowadays. If you take US or UK, you can't even survive if you don't know the subject. I met about 20 (may be even more than that) who have passed with first class computer degrees in some private institutions of Sri Lanka who are working in McDonals as waiters of dish washers. Some of them were kicked off from their jobs for being incapable.

Not extract, read my above post, what differential equations course will help you in your job as a web programmer? But Electronic Engineering person will met it in his simulations and modeling.

I have already mentioned about my lack of knowledge in understanding the involvement of the use of differential equations for electronics. What is modelling for electronics? You mean circuit designing? Please elaborate so I can catch up with that. I have used many electronic simulators from OrCAD to Altium. But never found differential equations there. I used some in filter designing but that is nothing to with electronics.

In universities
there is something called "craming" and everyone is doing that right? As you said you are a physical science student and you know this very well. My university friend told me that 90% of the university students are studying within 2 weeks for the exam ! I may wrong, but many are, if so you claming about real skills?

This is clear discrimination against talented people who pass A/Ls and enter universities. This is not good. Clear hatred on them. All I can ask you is don't be like that. That's up to you. However local university students are the highest paid in the industry at start up. However when other guys who gain expereince over years will become equal to them which is completely fair. It's like a person who run 4 Km with 100 Kmps and where as another in 10 Kmph. Both will reach the destination but there is a speed difference. Do you know there are 3 categories of Fully enlightened Buddhas?

1. Pragnadika (Highly intelligent)
2. Viryadika (Highly motivated)
3. Shraddadika (Highly devoted)

Please note that my English translation can have problems.

The time taken to become a Lord Buddha.

1. Pragnadika - 4 uncountable aeons
2. Viryadika - 16 for uncountable aeons
3. Shraddadika - [can't remember]

So a person who tries harder can reach the goal with same qualities but his journey is a bit slower than an intelligent person. Lord Gautama Buddha is a Highly Intelligent Buddha. Maitreya Buddhisathva is a Viryadika person so he spend 16 uncountable aeons before born in Thusitha heaven to become the next Buddha.

Suppose you studying for compiler theory, then you need to understand the concepts, go through other books, do the particles , complete a project [both individual and group] and do assignments. so if every university student who is doing all these things within 2 weeks are really genius if they can. But that's not the way that they pass exams , they collect past papers , explore their patterns and addicting to it. anyway thanks to the lazy work of exam paper author, you'll won't find too something you need to think new or think critically. So is that what you claim from others ?

This is big lie. With two weeks (unless you kept yourself up to date), you won't get something more than a C. There is a common saying in the university. You can take a E quite easily. You can take a D by just participating lectures. You can get a C by participating to lectures + studying for a month or two (I'm not sure about weeks... may be he is talking about only one subject?.. okay there are 9 subject at our times 9 x 2 = 18 weeks = ~5 months <- this a fair number... it's a big lie that people study all subjects in 2 weeks.. he can tell you those things...not to us..). However to take a B or A, you must really use your intelligence. Please note that I'm talking about all fields based on science (including engineering). If you friend is an Art or Law student, I'm not going to further comment on that. You can see it when you travel infront of their faculties...they have so much time to stay under trees

Anyway there are 10% of uni students who are really really smart, they continuously work driven by their interest and they play when the exam is near. They are the ppl like "NEO" , who can actually teach to the cramers thanks to Kuppi cramer method and Kuppi ppl in unis others also
passing.

To be honest with you, in my expereince 100% of the students are smart. It is just that only 10% match to the field they were given. Guess if I was only able to do civil engineering in UoM, what will happen to me? I have no interest in Civil.

So almost everybody in the university were planning on exams and unlike at A/Ls there was no competition. So we studied quite freely. Actually Sandun, kuppi is about a small light. When the lectures are compared to the light of Sun, the senior guys who volunteer to do kuppi are like small lights. Yes, small lights helps as well. So normally (at least abut 10 years before), kuppi were handled by the senior batches. It was unusual to do kuppi to the same batch. Yes, I did kuppi to junior batches. My love for sharing knowledge was born even before that thankful to my school.

But let me ask one question , what's the so deal and so difference between a "cramer" and a "cheater". I don't encourage on cheating , but if you can cheat to a subject that you'll sure that you will not need it in your job, then it's oky.

In simple words, a crammer lives happily with what he got but cheater lives always with fear and suspect. Can you name even a single subject that you think you will not use in the future under BIT?

It kinda hurts to see them get degrees and doing jobs. I have never cheated at any exam.

why everything happened to only me isn't it? Anyway cat had jumped from the bag !it's called the
jelous , and everybody have it. But even if you know somebody who passed cheated , sill respect him
because he is not the worst guy in this universe just because of exam cheating.

This is not called jealousy. Jealousy is the feeling you get when you see someone enjoys something better than you. For an honest person it is obviously hard to see people cheat (taking bribery, corruption are subs of the same subject). He feels there is no law and order. Whoever takes something that is not belongs to him is called cheating. A real Buddhist can't do it "I undertake the training rule to abstain from taking what is not given. Adinn?d?n? verama?? sikkh?pada? sam?diy?mi."

and "Job" is so a way of life. and everybody should have a "way of income and life" , ppl who doing jobs are depend on it. How old are you and which school you went ?it's not nice to criticize someone who is doing a job to live. But that doesn't say if you work harder and develop your skills is bad.

Yes. correct. Respect the right to have basic human needs. Food, shelter, etc... In my opinion talented must earn a higher salary than a less talented. Universal rule is that. If someone or a country violates that, it will be called 3rd world forever. Brain drain will be unstoppable.

Probably you need to sacrifice your years of repeats while others are doing jobs, True the true path to become real genius is very rough, but you selected that path by your will, other ppl who doing jobs have nothing to do with it.

I'm not going to tell the same thing again. I have already cleared the fact about the 3 ways to become a fully fledged fully enlightened Buddha. In the society I experience this. So Herath as a talented guy will always have a job anywhere in the world where someone untalented will have to compete a lot in several interviews. Please note that I didn't mention you as untalented ever. It is just that I address the subject in an open debate.

But It is not always good to challenge the knowledge of the seniors if you are not quite sure about the thing you are talking about.

It's oky to challenge Neo guy if I have that knowledge , but the problem is he is 20+ years experienced and I didn't even survived 2 months in my job.Somebody in his level of experience can give him a challenge,but that's not me clearly. IzTine Challenged Newton , Hawkings Challenged IzTine ,challenge in knowledge is not evil if you have it. I don't have it so I can simply silient and listen.

I think the word 'challenge' is not suitable. When we talk about knowledge and wosdom, challenge is not the right word. It's about asking someone to come to fight Let's use the word 'argument'.

Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings -- that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide."
Buddha

This is what I'm doing and I ask you to do so as well.

You may talk about some previous posts that I have posted with wrong facts, As you can see I already apologized !

I didn't see you did that anyway But that is okay. I only need our readers to get the correct answer. No competition here.

I hate ppl who cheated and doing jobs while I'm still studying on campus

I couldn't see Herath stated something like that in his post? He is doing 2 degrees at the same time so he couldn't cope up with some subjects in one degree. And he is very young still and coming from a good family where he can even live without a job
However what he tried to emphasise was the real need of talented guys to develop the nation. If you are not talented, he asks you to try hard (become a Viryadika) and join the work force as a talented guy. There is no other way for you to live as an untalented with same luxury in life. It's not practical. So all I have seen is, he welcomed people to work hard for the betterment of the nation.

even he cheated and passed exam, he is not asking money from you to maintain his wife/family ? Did he asked?

No. But he robbed someone else's chance. So the universe will decide a punishment for him one day. That's Buddhism I know.

And you on the other hand studying in a government university and funded by their hardly earned tax money. you probably should be thankful for them aren't you. However I don't say it's wrong to use free education or use universities which are funded by tax money.

He he... here comes the real cat out. You are angry for not being able to enter to a university? I think it is because of the enormous pressure you might had from your parents. In foreign countries people do what they want. Not what their parents want them to do. But in my opinion, a person who learned form a government university should work at least few years for the country before jumping in to west and forget the roots. This is just like they robbed country's money.

But let them live too. don't destroy their way of life.And exam cheating is nothing criminal

Yes. It is not criminal but a punishable offence. I told you what had happened to one of the intelligent persons that I know personally. It's nothing other than robbing. Taking something that you don't own and don't deserve to own.

but I clearly discouraged it

Hey then there in no argument. Why we have wasted quite a lot of time on a long argument and you logically take the defeat finally by yourself. You discourage it because you know it is wrong. Wrong is wrong no matter who did that. Universe will punish everyone with irreversible results.

BUT WE DON"T HAVE ANY RIGHT TO CRITICIZE OR SCOLD PPL LIKE THAT

If a reader learn that it is not a good thing to cheat in an exam, that's our aim. Obviously we can't do anything practically other than convincing people to practice the correct path. And honestly I didn't see Herath has criticised anyone in his post. He was just giving guidance to practice the correct path.

-------------------------------------------
Herath:

Jeez, you are full of rubbish. Sorry for saying that. Can you remember the following dialog from the movie Avatar?.

Moat: It is hard to fill a cup that is already full.
Jake Sully: My cup is empty. Trust me. Just ask Dr. Augustine. I'm no scientist.

There is a good saying similar to that

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink

Okay... in conclusion, Sandun seems to young and has quite a lot of things to learn in his life. I'm sure he will. But please note that you will have to change your attitude. The points I would like to mention is "thinking as a genius", "thinking superior than others", "blaming others for own mistakes", "arguing only with hatred without a logic", etc... must be some points everyone should avoid. Believe me I'm still learning. I learned that a 128-bit floating point standard was released by IEEE754-2008 as binary128 from Sandun. I thanked him for that. I'm ready to accept new knowledge since I know otherwise I will get outdated quite easily.

I was not interested in the degree because I did not have any genuine interest in learning those complicated things. But now I do, so I am learning now.

Herath bro, you would have mentioned that it was because you were doing a computer degree in a private institutions. Otherwise a person who don't know you might think it is because you failed the exams

You are always talking about very advanced stuff and sounds like most of them are just out of the research lab. You can keep your thinking, it is not a problem. But the thing is that, we will never be successful as a nation if we adopt your ideas. Its not all about having a job, earning your meal and maintaining a family. Even the man from the stone age could do that. This is about going a step further.

And the thinking of these kind of people only takes the whole country, the nation 10 steps backward each time.

It made me really laugh very louder Actually the way you handled the language is quite extraordinary (I always praise you on that..very nice). I would be much happier if you use the word ideologies instead of ideas
Sandun, please don't get hurt. I didn't laugh at you. I just laugh at the way Herath has handle his words.

ohh man, I want to stop laughing

Okay..finally.... let me read rest of the post...

Nothing is forced on you,it was you who chose to take the path of science.

I'm confident that Sandun will come up with his little shortfalls and join the community of talent and intelligence. Failing to pass the Maths paper, kicked out of the first job is really good lessons to your life. Just learn something and get ready for the future.

And what is your problem with those differential equations?. They are even used in commerce and economics subjects. Not only complex modelling.

Yes.. fully agreed. It's the easiest I know and taught under Applied (2 year). There was a complete subject called Differential Equations at our time.

If you are willing to accept, there are lots of people around here who likes to help. Keep that in mind.

Yes... ROBOT.LK was introduced to fill the gap of knowledge resources for people like you. I understand some people try to show a big picture with technical terms, etc... or name themselves as maths geniuses (I have lots of batch mates who gained PhDs in mathematics and teaching in world recognised universities.. also I lived 4 years with nearly 20 or 30 PhD qualified lecturers.. I was student of Prof. Samaranayaka - father of computer scientists in Sri Lanka as well) but I don't think you met any such geniuses. From those who stated they are geniuses in mathematics, ask them what degree they have. If they don't have at least a Special Degree in Mathematics (4 year internal degree in UoC), I'm not sure what made him think as a genius.

Okay... I think we have taken this a bit far than necessary. But it is good to know each other better. ROBOT.LK is created with the aim to help people who lacking access to technology resources such as computers, books, etc... Let's work as much as possible in our capacity.

[Neo]

Okay... Sandun sent me an PM with some private information. Since it will left the other participants (more importantly Herath) out which is not ethical, I answer in public by taking extra care that non of the unneeded things are pasted. Just the points that I think is essential.

I believe a strong change in Sandun's way of thinking is really necessary. I didn't thought this is that serious until the last moment. So... you really need to understand the reality.

Herath, there are certain points we need to take in to consideration. Sandun really needs some good advise. For he seems a guy who was very hardly pushed by his parents to do what they wanted to see from him. When he fail the exams, their parents think he is failure. Just because of this pressure, his mentality has been changed to hate talent, intelligence, etc... I think his parents would have understood what their son is capable of doing rather than pushing him to pass exams which give pleasure for them. The end result is a serious change in mentality.

---------------------------------------------
Sandun's PM

Hey then there in no argument. Why we have wasted quite a lot of time on a long argument and you logically take the defeat finally by yourself. You discourage it because you know it is wrong. Wrong is wrong no matter who did that. Universe will punish everyone with irreversible results.

This is not the Buddhism that I learned, I do respect Lord Buddha first place.

The truth is we all have already lots of "bad kama" , so the truth is we all living with fear. Don't you have the fear to your death? Everybody have that.

Fear is a relative thing. The fear you have is not the fear I have.

And the way we grasp Buddhism is also different. People like Saripuththa maha rahath thero was able to understand things quite faster than an average person. Also, some monks gained the Arihathhood by meditating on 'Pancha Upadanaskandaya' (Rupa, vedana....) where as some through 'Patichcha Samuppadaya'. You might also find the difference between an Arihath who's named as 'Ashta Samapaththilabi Maha Rahath' (who had reached Nirvana through 8th Diyana) and others who's reached Nirvana through 4th or 2nd Diyana. All are in equal state when compared to Nirvana but only the ones who reached through 8th Diyana can experience nirvana in this life using 'Niroda Samapaththi'.

In Buddhism, there is always a special place for highly intelligent people. Lord Buddha always stated, nirvana is for intelligent people. I agree I'm also a fool who can't practice and cross the river of 'Samsara' yet.

What I wanted to emphasise was, even intelligence is relative. Albert Einstein had a special part developed in his brain which made him extra ordinary. His brain is preserved so at a time when science is developed, people could try to use it. He is surely taken that because of good karma according to Buddhism. And according to other religions, he can be named as a blessed person by the god.

Okay...so everything is relative including your thoughts. This is proved both in Buddhism as a doctrine and in physics as a science. You might read about special theory of relativity which includes SpaceTime theory which I think Einstein reached the explanation that Buddhism is the future religion. You might search 'Einsteins quotes on Buddhism'.

So relativity is a general theory of the whole universe. Narada thero always started with 'lokaya vishamai, lokaya vividai'.

Okay let's get back to science Honestly there is not much difference in Buddhist teachings and modern science.

So still I'm saying there's little difference between a person who cheated and genuinely passed exam. Yes universe will definitely punish them, but there is a little difference. and we are not responsible to punish for someone's "kama".Let the nature to do it.

Yes I agree. But we as friends/teacher or at least humans should tell the others to avoid bad habits. So it will stop a future bad-karma of someone which brings good-karma (good deed) to us.

it's not my type , How many times I have seen ppl bribing in-front me? Cheating in front of me? ppl doing unfair thing in-front of me? But no matter what happened , if that doesn't count anything to me, I don't care and I'll stay silent,that's my type. We can't make change the world.ppl are different.

Okay, that can be your type. When something bad happen to you, people around you will do the same to you. What you give is what you get. If you act against the unreasonable/unfair thing, they other will act the same on you.

Please tell me a one person who lives without any fear? then i'll explicitly change my mind.

What's the argument here?. Fear to death is normal for all living creatures. However if we are ready, we don't have to live with fear. Okay. explicit change of mind is not possible. If that was possible, Lord Buddha would have sent everybody to nirvana. Only implicit works here

Believe me this is a truth story, I know a poor university student MoU Engineering who is female and elder than me AAAA batch, who came from AAAAAAAA, and the professor forced her to have sex with him in-order to pass her from that difficult subject.

This is completely not true. I'm totally against this. University lecturers never ever did this. However there are some occasions, lady students become attracted to their lecturers or vice-versa and usually end up with happy marriages. That's truly starts from love. No one is pushed or forced to do that. You know love is something which can't be taken in that way .

She would have told her batch mates whom can act against it. You know inside a university, the power is students. Not the lecturers (unlike in school). There are unions that are very powerful and have connections to all parliamentary representations. If a lecturer involves in such a brutal act my god... in Sri Lanka, I'm sure he will hardly save his life. And why didn't she complain the marshals (Marshals are the police inside university though we had a very nice and pleasant relationship with them.. they only come in to action in a problem). She would have complained UGC as well who will kick the lecturer out of university. Finally, she would have complained to police. According to your story, she was raped and the punishment in Sri Lanka for that is lifetime imprisonment. Okay... for me, clearly someone has made up a cheap x story. I have never seen or heard any such thing in my life. UoM is a place of intelligence. Not a place of sick minded. I'll invite someone from UoM to address this. For now, just keep in mind, this can't be true.

However a girl could reach a lecturer silently (since she was from UoM about 50+ in a class.. no individual tuition there by lecturers) and seeks exams cheating by offering her body. You can see the problem here is totally with the girl. She simply needs to cheat the exam to get high marks that she is not worthy to take. If that is the case, it could not be the first time of her to do such act... So she is a sick minded. A lecturer might become a victim of a sick minded here. In your case, she didn't complain because she did all that herself to cheat her friend in the same batch who shared lunch among everyone, etc....

Again see what I have said before... A clear punishment of exam cheating.

Genius is good , but using that to that kind of advantages is fair?

He he...brother you are completely misguided. That's a made up story you believe as true. All the guys who enter UoM are the best/intelligent students of the country. Don't you get that? Nobody needs to sell the body in this way since all are intelligent and have the capability to fight neck to neck in exams.

My cousin sister (who is really beautiful and purely intelligent... however it is a well known truth that it is rare to have beautiful girls there anyway ) is an electronics engineer from UoM. She was the batch top and ended up obviously with a 1st class, just because she is too smart. Her boyfriend (now her loving husband) was few years senior to her. So how did she became the batch top?

Okay that's enough I think.

world is not fair anyway.And she got P argent and , the professor told her to do a abortion.

This again a BIG question mark to me. Didn't she forget to ask him use condoms? Condoms are quite popular these days, right? If the story was true... She wanted to cheat the exam (which in turn is about cheating her batch mates... she was jealous against others) so she offered her body to the lecturer. Lecturer is a human so he did that (it's not an offence since she is 18+). Girl was a fool who forgot to take a condom in a situation where she offered it herself. So the lecturer finally became a victim of a sick girl. The girl is fully responsible here but thinking as a human after all these had happened, she could have raised her child by her own since she can become an engineer one day.

You can see these on porn movies but not in real life. Especially in UoM where all students are so bright.

However she is not living a rest of her life happy in Singapore and married and have children with a rich good businessman.

mmm...rich businessman explains me the rest of her story. You know some poor girls are there who want to get rich in the easy way by offering her body to rich people. Okay, you used the word 'rich' since she used the same. You will ahve to argue logically to find the problem.

In Sri Lanka, if this has happened to a innocent girl and she has a good job, what she will do is raise the child by her own. Not going behind rich businessman again.

I'm not directed to blame UoM knowledge society. Just understand what I'm trying to mention, even inside UoM knowledge society there can be dirty ppl like that too.

You can't blame since you not one of the students. There are 1000s of them who are in good positions and they will take care on that. As I told you, your story is a made up one to harm the image of whole university system. Non of these are real.

Dirty mind is the girl. Do you clearly understand or still want to argue with me. She wanted marks more than her friends even by removing her cloths. She wanted to cheat her own friends. In a batch it is usual to share exam tips, etc... that's the brotherhood in a university.. that's my expereince with UoC/Science Faculty/Dept. of CS (now UCSC). But she was too jealous to do that. Pass exams only by herself.

So don't believe on perfection.

Who told you that I believe in physical perfection? As a follower of Buddhism, how can I be one. However I believe in spiritual perfection -> Nirvana. However I don't do sin which gives bad-karma which will ultimately give a bad life than this. That's all. Read the advice of all Buddhas 'sabba papassa akaranan.....". This means, don't do any act which brings you bad-karma.

everybody is guilty and even it's not a exception to do guilty things.

How can someone become guilty for something he never involves in doing? When you live a clean, you can live in peace.

Great Lord Buddha told , reduce every sins and increase good things.

Hey hey hey... Don't change the world... May be someone else has advised in that way
Lord Buddha said, AVOID ALL sin WHICH IS NOT DONE. CULTIVATE good deeds WHICH ARE YET TO BE DONE.
[Go to http://www.bodusara.org/preaches/, listen to 'Sabba Papassa Akaranan' at 22.56]

reduce sin... what a joke

Can we stop all sins in this un-fair animal universe?

Yes, why not? Take Rerukane Chandavimala Maha Thero (who lived close to your home town in Pokunuvita) who was said to became an Anagami Thero. Take Balangoda Ananda Maitreya Thero, who wished to become a Buddha. Take Madihe Pannasiha Thero, who has given extremely valuable advises to our society. I'll give you a living example. Take Nauyane Ariyadamma Maha Sthivarayan Vahanse who is the chief incumbent of world famous Nauyana aranya which is very famous place for intelligent people from all over the world to become Buddhist monks.

I can give you 1000s of never ending living examples. Humans are animals by figure but not by brains. Anyway it's up to you think your brain is also animal. But not me

and if I don't hate UoM ppl , but I do have jelous with them , and I wanted to become smart like them. Hating them won't give me anything. Their level of expertise is good.respect is always therefor someone who is smart. that's why I PM this fact to you.

You don't need to do any special respect for intelligent people. They will automatically get that anyway. You can read the story of Lord Buddha who became the teacher of all 3 worlds. The only person who's known as the teacher of gods as well. He didn't cheat to get that. He spend quite a long time and finally gone through a deadly meditation exercise to find the path to wisdom for us.

Okay so it is an automatics thing to get respect. To do that, what you simply have to do is respect others. Take a dog. Dog is known as the best friend of man. When you talk in good words, it feels happy, When you scold, it is not. Okay simple as that. What you give is what you get. No intelligence is required to understand that I guess?

try to be prefect is oky, but don't believe on it or don't except it.

I want to have perfect mindfulness to gain true wisdom. I believe in true wisdom since Lord Buddha explained the correct path and I have some expereince in practising it. And I expect Nirnava as my ultimate goal in life. It is the spiritual perfection I'm talking about. The one we gain through removing ignorance (mohaya). Not the material (physical) things in the world which I already know as impermanent (anithya).

and I don't have hate with UoM, if I hate them then why I'm here?

You don't have to hate anybody. no need to make jealous. all you have to do is, do BIT well and pass it with highest marks possible with you. since BIT is from UoC, you will be recognised anywhere in the world (just take my word).

------------------
Sanduna, Herath also has a chance to answer now. It is unfair if we avoid that through a PM. Just get it. Don't say world is not fair which we already know. But let's be fair as much as possible

[Herath]

I had a feeling that Sandun needs some consultation. He could talk with a person who could understand him or go to psychiatric. I am not saying that he is crazy for asking him to see a psychiatric. Everyone go through hard times and most people need help to make it through. Even I have been through such tough times. Most of the times I talk to my best friend who is also studying for a CSE degree at UoM. Although he is 4 years younger than me, he easily keeps up with me. I am so happy that I have such a good friend.

So, What I could tell you is that you should talk to someone. And do not resist help. I am not angry at you Sandun. I think I can understand your situation. But hatred will take you nowhere. It will only spoil your mind.

I can't comment on the "University girl trading sexual services for the degree" thing. I don't have information on that thing. And it sounds to me like sexual fantasies of a poor fellow. Even if they do, that is a problem with them. Someday they will face the consequences. Things like that could happen. But the incident that Sandun has described is a little bit hard to believe. It's like a Hindi movie.

I do not have much to say. Neo has a complete analysis on your complains. Just think for yourself. I do not think that there is any point in Neo's explanation which you can't agree with.
And don't be so stubborn.

[Face]

what has sandun started here :O why don't you brother understand you are wasting much plenty of time of our friends with this topic.who will get help with this topic now or in future ? I don't understand what are you going to make this place as a debate place :O

I am sorry about my post.But I ma telling what I feel when I see this. I didn't read any post other than your topic (I don't like it )