DSP single chip programming.

[Yurihalo]

Hi evryone...I have a question on DSP processors. I searched in analog devices and texas instruments for DSP chip programmers but i could not find any such thing like a PIC programmer....if this is the case what is it that is used to load a program into the DSP???? I am so confused.....

If there are any links could you please post here so that you could save your time.. I know it is kinda troublesome for someone to write a whole description.... ..Thank You very Much..!!

[SevenZero]

I know it is kinda troublesome for someone to write a whole description

No. That's okay. That's why ROBOT.LK is here for you.

To program AD or Ti DSPs you need to buy JTAG device normally called as a JTAG emulator. With this device you'll be able to program/debug the DSP in real-time. Also, you'll need to buy a dedicated software environment for Ti DSPs called Code Composer Studio. With Code Composer Studio (CCS) software with a JTAG emulator, you'll be able to start working on Ti DSPs. You can trial CCS for 2 months according to my memory. For AD DPSs such as Blackfin this is same. However as you might know up to now Ti leads the DSP world far more ahead than its competitors. In other words no one even can reach the Ti DSP product line. Being the inventor of IC (Integrated Circuits), there is no doubt on that. Ti DSPs are used for all critical applications including fixing on satellites, robot crawlers, etc... However to start development on a Ti, a considerable amount of investment is required. Though Ti DSPs play a huge role in world market, in Sri Lanka, it is yet a critical task. Since most DSPs comes with large number of pins or BGA, other than starting on an evaluation module, an enthusiast can't start on them directly.

There is a low cost solution for this called Digital Signal Controllers. Ti MSP430 is such a cheap solution. dsPIC from Microchip is also a Digital Signal Controller. Though those are not powerful as DSPs, those are easy to start with. For example, if you can spend about $200, you will be able to buy a PICKIT3 and a good dsPIC Evaluation Module. If you can then use a good C compiler, you will be able to do lots of powerful tasks with them. If you take dsPIC40F3011, this is a very powerful Digital Signal Controller.

I think I have given all the information you requested.

[Yurihalo]

Thank You very much for your reply.I really felt more enlightnd after that (really).had a tough time finding the answer through the web ..Sorry for any inconvenience i am causing but i've some questions that popped into my head with your answer...Does it mean that we can do this JTAG programming for a single chip after it has been soldered to the PCB with the allocation for a JTAG programming port to the single chip? And does this mean that an evaluation board or a USB stick will be necessary for prototyping?( which is easier with a DIP package PIC and Breadboards).

I also heard that external memory should be used if the program code is too large. if so how is it that the dsp if programmed to fetch these instructions from the external memory(i.e. does the dsp have this capability? i really don't know)?

Thank You for your reply again.

[SevenZero]

Thank You very much for your reply.I really felt more enlightnd after that (really).had a tough time finding the answer through the web

You are welcome! I'm happy for being able to give you a little guidance.

Does it mean that we can do this JTAG programming for a single chip after it has been soldered to the PCB with the allocation for a JTAG programming port to the single chip?

Yes. This is what we normally do with micros, isn't it? If we solder a micro to the board (rather than on a base to for ADC applications), we leave the ISP port on the custom PCB. So whenever we want, we can program. Just like that we keep the JTAG port for both Atmel and dsPIC chips.

However, as I have already told you, soldering DSP is a challenge (I have never seen DIP packages... All I have seen are QFP and BGAs). I recommend you to start with an evaluation module. However, if you really want to start by your own, you might use a QFP test socket as follows. But this is not even possible with BGA chips.

socket.png (179.63 KiB) Viewed 20368 times

And does this mean that an evaluation board or a USB stick will be necessary for prototyping?( which is easier with a DIP package PIC and Breadboards).

For prototyping, you can either buy an evaluation board or make your own one as discussed above. You will need that JTAG emulator and the programming software as well.

I also heard that external memory should be used if the program code is too large. if so how is it that the dsp if programmed to fetch these instructions from the external memory(i.e. does the dsp have this capability? i really don't know)?

Not all but some have the capability to access external memory. However, external memory requirement is only for very large applications. DSPs have quite a lot of in-built memory than dsPICs or micros. So for 90% applications, it is enough. When you have an evaluation module and you program on it, on the final phase you can decide what exactly you need on the final hardware.

Also, you need to decide which DSP you are going to use. Based on that only you can buy the evaluation module. Like micros, there are no such board which you can program multiple types of chips.

Following docs might help you.
http://www.bdti.com/MyBDTI/pubs/choose_2000.pdf
http://www.bdti.com/MyBDTI/pubs/20060405_ESC06_dsps.pdf

With this Ti page, you'll be able to select a Ti processor.
http://www.ti.com/lsds/ti/dsp/platform/device.page

[Yurihalo]

Thank you very much for your reply.... I can now understand the picture of what's going on......I just have one final question to ask. Sorry for any inconvenience i am causing you again..... What i am actually trying to implement for my project is something like this:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tg9G4Dfc ... re=related

It is the Korg wavedrum....

A smaller portable version is the Korg Wavedrum Mini

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNXdqrOgghk

The Korg wavedrum Mini uses a 32 bit floating point SHARC processor that runs at 266Mhz... So if i were to use any PIC or dsPIC or the NXP1768...what would you recommend, from your experience.... so that i can actually approach close enough to one of the two?( My Project supervisor was like "You can do this, requires hard work ...")... I really dont need to have that much sound quality , but i only need the processing speed to perform fast calculations....

I really don't know whether i should be asking a question like this in the first place, but i feel more at home right here.....

Thank you again for the above replies...

(And terribly sorry if my question above sounds foolish )

[SevenZero]

No..no..no.. We as a set of technology enthusiasts enjoy exchanging ideas with you type of valuable future stars of technology world. So do not hesitate to ask any question here. We can't promise that we can give the answer. But we can promise that we will help you in our fullest capacity. We hope you guys will start doing the same here and get your friends to join with us as well.

My recommendation is dsPIC. 30F4011 is something that you can start looking at. Very powerful processor. I feel you will need to use a DAC as well. For real-time sound sample processing, I'm sure dsPIC will have enough power for you.

DSPs are very good for this. But as I said the only problem is the start up cost.

Another alternative that came to my mind. Have you thought about ARM ? You can buy a ARM Evaluation Module for less than LKR10K. This is also a good option.

You can also talk to the TRONIC.LK representative here. They have quite a lot of experience with micros, FPGAs and DSPs.

Hope this helps!

[Yurihalo]

Thank You very much for your reply ......I also will try to use the ARM in the design..... I also have an intention to use an FPGA and experiment with each of these or a combination(Cos my project supervisor advised me to consider FPGA as well....)...This topic has enlightened me on the path i should begin...Thank You again.... after the project i'll post what happened etc etc so that others can gain knowledge and will not make the mistakes i might make in the future...

[SevenZero]

after the project i'll post what happened etc etc so that others can gain knowledge and will not make the mistakes i might make in the future...

This is really essential. If all of the members here think in this way, we can make ROBOT.LK a great place for knowledge thirsty technology enthusiasts.

Good luck for your project!